Ping, AfterPay and Cash now only options from November

Victoria. Casual sellers listing in clothing are currently affected by the promo that is running. This is a different issue to that which will be affecting in-trade sellers from November 1

The auto Ping activation happens for casual sellers in clothing and home and living until October 11

https://www.trademe.co.nz/c/promo/no-success-fees

Hi Victoria, It is not just that Ping is being made mandatory for all users. In trade sellers can no longer accept bank account transfers as payment. plus the ping fee has been increased. I could be mistaken but as i understand it the same does not apply to casual sellers. I had listed out about 5 issues with the changes over the last 2 years. it has cause a lot of pain for all users. I also take issue with the way the Trade Me communicated the change. the communication was poor only insinuating that inTrade sellers are dishonest and I find this despicable "To create a safer and more streamlined experience for you (maybe you here means the drop shipping international sellers) and your buyers, we are updating the accepted payment methods for in-trade sellers on Trade Me." and also this "By moving to secure payments, we're better protecting your business and our members with every transaction." i would like to add to Trade Me's sentence which is what they would not say out loud "by making it more and more difficult for In Trade Sellers". This is just hypocritical and they only mentioned buyer protection. when we all know that sellers need protection as well. there just some bad actors - buyers as well as sellers that are dishonest. I would like to believe that a vast majority of people buyers and sellers are honest but the way the email was communicated it simply annoying they just named "In Trade" sellers. It is disheartening and frustrating when in return everything else on trade me is challenging. starting from the UI to customer service to the fees. It is time at least in my opinion to move on.

One more problem - just to mention I responded to you Victoria and my response to you has just gone into pending status. because the powers that be do not like dissent. Another reason to leave.

Sharon. Mine is in pending too. As will be many others in this thread.  It happens automatically. Mainly from keywords and a few other things. They are usually cleared pretty quickly, unless there is something said that breaches the messageboard T&Cs. 

If you want to you can just add your original comment in a new post as a screenshot (Which makes the pending system a bit silly.) Or just wait for it to clear. 

oh mine is pending too maybe too many terse words   Feels like a communist organisation 

Most of mine get pended, lol...

Mine get removed. Sensitive little souls here … btw the term is in the Oxford dictionary 🙄

I think that Sharon is 100% correct in that Trade Me want to get rid of 'in-trade' sellers. I also think that it leaves is a great opening for an auction site for small or sole-traders?

This dumb move by trademe actually has me seriously considering my future  selling - its so unjust and depressing.

I hear ya. Starting to create my own website tonight . Sadly they know we won’t stop but maybe we should all take our auctions down for a weekend

So Im intrade- for all the people who cant pay cash or dont trust PING - can we put a sentence like "Plz tick pickup if wishing to pay by  internetbanking  I will contact your with bank details".....  ????

Robert. A couple of points. You've mentioned 2FA. You might not be aware that Trade Me already has this? Admittedly it's opt-in.  I don't have it activated myself. Mainly because I know my passwords are very strong, and I switch between a couple of account multiple times a day. It makes it unworkable for me to have it switched on. 

I suspect mandating Ping to casual sellers would force more of them to disappear to Facebook. TM are already trying to compete in that space. It's why casual sellers get all the free listing promos. 

@Robert “Given in-trade sellers are NOT scamming then this is simply not about making the site safer.”

Not true. Blinkit (no longer on Trademe though I suspect they are back under a different name) with over 200 positive feedbacks was selling high-end second hand Mac laptops. I bought one. Didn’t get it. Then negative feedbacks started showing as others had the same problem. I added my negative feedback too. Then Trademe removed all negative feedback as the trader complained (and lied). End result: SEVEN more people got scammed and left negative feedback before Trademe froze their account.

Another example: bought two 4k wildlife cameras. Turned out they took 640x480 pictures and scaled them up to 4k - cheap Chinese crap. Other specs were also wrong, eg motion sensor 20 m was actually 20 feet. Complained to Trademe who did nothing.

Another in-trade trader with thousands of positive feedbacks sells pruners claiming an RRP of $149 but you can buy it from him for “just $99” - they are $80 in the shops.

And there are LOTS more. So No, you are quite wrong in your assumption. There are a lot more scam in-trade traders selling cheap Temu crap or making false claims ir are outright scammers than you think.

You’re highlighting my point.
Optional 2FA is useless. Most don’t know about it and many who do don’t use it therefore it’s useless. EBay mandate it and that’s the best line of security.

Yes, forcing Ping on casuals would see most stop selling. Again, if TM were serious about security, this is what they’d do. They don’t.

You’re making a lot of assumptions here about TM strategy but neither of us know. Marketplace is not only free but you can openly negotiate.

Anecdotally, I know few of my friends who use TM any more and my view numbers and watchers has fallen massively in the last few years. I sell there for non antiques as well. The tipping point is here.

Markus, we are talking about different things but you raise a good point. Most scams are hacked accounts, usually dormant or infrequently used, items get listed in the middle of the night, buy nows - I got stung by one - these are not in-trade sellers. 

What you're talking about is different but equally valid and TradeMe used to monitor accounts and negatives - not any more. It seems what you've encountered are "legitimate" local sellers with dubious selling tactics. Ping won't save someone overpaying or getting a poor quality product. 

As a footnote, there's a shop selling on TradeMe, bricks and mortar shop, who list on TradeMe at retail plus TM fee and they have over 2000 feedback. Who would've thought they'd sell anything when you can go to their website and pay RRP. Customers are interesting. 

Robert. You're wrong there as well I'm afraid. eBay doesn't have mandatory 2FA. It's optional just like on here. I've never had to use it on my account. It does sometimes force an MFA response in a few situations. Like initiating refunds or updating sensitive account info. That's what you might have come across. Or you have perhaps turned it on without realising it's optional.  But anyway we're getting off topic here. 

There is a difference in the way Ping is viewed between buyer and seller that seems to be being ignored by TM. As a buyer I am fine with Ping, what's not to like? It's fast, easy, and comes with that safety thing which I may or may not have to use. Twice I think in hundreds of trades... But will I use it as a casual seller? Not a hope, too slow to get my money and the ticket gets clipped - I'm not selling to make a profit, but to get rid. But that's the old Trade Me, the biggest garage sale in the country. The before the offshore dealers were let in, before new tat (and a lot of it is crap) outweighed our old good stuff. I don't think TM can ever be as good again, and that is a bit sad...

Forward the email from Trade Me to the Commerce Commission: PaymentsTeam@comcom.govt.nz

Include the relevant law below, as well as anything else you feel is applicable in terms of impact to you personally:

There is an argument that this move creates a restraint in trade, is anti-competitive and constitutes an unsolicited service.

In addition, for any business that transacts less than $250,000/year through Trade Me, this infringes on rights under the Fair Trading Act, specifically Unfair Contract Terms:

1. The change creates a significant imbalance in rights/obligations, causes detriment financially and otherwise (eg loss of flexibility, delays with receiving payments, loss of customers who cannot pay by Ping or need to split payments), it is not reasonably necessary to protect the legitimate interests of the party advantaged by the terms.

2. FTA prohibits unconscionable conduct in trade that is harsh, oppressive, unfair - especially where one party has much more bargaining power or the other has no choice. Forcing traders to accept a payment form with additional fees that they cannot decline is abuse of power, and creates unfair pressure - especially in a 'take it or leave it' scenario.

3. This constitutes a variation/alteration of contract terms. This is unfair where terms are changed without consent. It's not reasonably necessary, heavily favours one party and violates rights under the FTA. It gives disproportionate power over finances, at significant cost, and gives TM the power to penalise. It is detrimental, creates material harm and disproportionally favours TM, when it is not essential for legitimate risk management. The payment clause increases costs to the point where traders are disadvantaged.

Ok, I have a Question, something I have been thinking about this morning,

As we know casual sellers have had ping forced on them for promotions, But my understanding is it is only those that list through the website, and not those using My Products to list?, I just listed something via my products on the promotional Ping, and no ping added on my casual account, Just to test it, 

So how are they going to enforce Ping on Intrade My Product users? how do they differentiate Intrade from Casual In My Products?, when for a reason they cannot add make an offer to My Products as only for casual sellers?, so has not been implemented in My Products as of yet?,

Thoughts on this please?,

Hi flossy63, It was specifically mentioned in the email to in-trade sellers that it would happen on listing tools, so I guess they've got that covered. 

Don't forget that for the casual promo it's only for certain categories. Clothing and home/living. Was your listing in those? 

Exactly. Basic stuff everyone uses. Like the search engine...

Flossy63. To be fair there were 4 or 5 questions in your post, so I am not sure which one you wanted an answer to in particular. I'm saying Trade Me will have locked down listing tools so the mandatory Ping will happen for in-trade sellers. I'm sure more than half of in-trade sellers would use use a listing tool. It could even be as many as 80% They wouldn't make it so most of the in-traders on here are able to avoid the new rule by simply using a listing tool. 

As for why Trade Me haven't activated make an offer via listing tools I have no idea. It has been asked before on here. The only response from Trade Me was that it's not currently available. I don't think it's because they can't differentiate between casual and in-trade. They just haven't added it fullstop. 

Casual sellers in Home & Living & Clothing in the so called free listing period aren't able offer bank payment either but adding Ping Payment is not enabled either. It not automatic as someone has suggested. They want me to take a screen shot. I really can't be bothered. Good on you guys taking it to Com Com.

Clearly we are all upset with the changes, what are we going to do. How many have contacted the news media, how many have sent the letter to mem mem. Taking our auctions down only affects us . So I would love for everyone to send the letter. And contact media. If this is an illegal move then we need to know. It is certainly immoral . We have started moving to marketplace but why should we, it’s just greed and if trademe cared about there sellers after reading this they would reconsider. Wonder if you can mark no pick ups then activate cash

There is precedent for ComCom stepping in where they have considered something to fall under Unfair Contract Terms. There is also an online post (albeit it from a private trader) where they said that they argued to Trade Me that Ping was an unsolicited service and as a result had their Ping fee reimbursed. When eBay still owned Paypal, they tried to introduce a similar change in payment terms to this change from TM, initially in Australia, where their equivalent of ComCom did view it as anti-competitive and did not permit eBay to make this move.

Haha, honestly, really ... just a money grab. On my private account states "we have pre selected Ping to make the process easier for you" on the "free" clothing and home & living categories. Gee thanks TM, so thoughtful

In this day and age, with it being so easy to self market and create websites, I guess I can thank TradeMe for lighting the fire. I know I am not alone, I am already creating my own site. After this tosser move from TM, it's time.

Nancy - Interesting. I found this online