Ping, AfterPay and Cash now only options from November

Sorry Matt. Perhaps I didn't explain fully. With a buynow only MQL (multi quantity listing) item and Ping as the only method of payment the buyer must pay with Ping at point of sale. Otherwise they simply can't buy it. A buyer has to select the method of payment when they purchase something. If Ping is the only option, as Trade Me are mandating, the sale can't proceed until is paid for. There is a possibility that "cash" could be selected if a seller has ticked that box and the sale can proceed that way.  

Here is a random example for you. You can't buy this item unless you pay for it with Ping when you buy it. 5550262438

With normal auctions, or normal auctions that also have a buynow, this can't happen obviously, because you can place a bid before the auctions ends. So you can't pay for something before you win it. 

TM was originally an auction site for used items. Now it is turning into just another online sales platform. The mandating of ping and immediate payment will only make this more so. TM is become an extension of Temu or Amazon and buyers will end up going straight to them and bypass TM all together. Sad to see the demise of what was once a kiwi institution.

This is a copy of the complaint I have made:
From Monday 3 November, new listings from in-trade sellers will exclusively be forced to use Ping, with cash and Afterpay as optional additions. Listings from this time on will have PING automatically added and bank transfer as a payment option will be removed. Payment via Ping will have a transaction fee of 2.19% deducted from the total amount the buyer pays (including shipping). This mandating of payment methods will severely constrain my trade on TradeMe. I have used bank to bank transfers for over 20 years and have never had a problem. PING is mandated and there is NO option to NOT use this payment method. In other words we as sellers are being forced to use a payment method owned by TradeMe so that they can add another income stream. As I sell items NZ wide, as of Nov 3 I will only be able to supply products to local cash buyers.

Tom. Understand your sentiment there, but it is still a site for used stuff, but also extended into new items which is almost certainly its dominant part now, but that is driven by public demand. All websites evolve with the times or they die. However what gets most people is the constant increase in fees, with reducing margins, and also to a huge extent TM "fixing" the site which has been a disaster for years now with no end in site. And of course the dehumanising of the site making problem solving with customer service frustrating, slow and sometimes imposible

Enshi*tification, also known as cr*pification and platform decay, is a pattern in which two-sided online products and services decline in quality over time. Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers (such as advertisers), and finally degrade their services to users and business customers to maximize profits for shareholders.

Sadly this is what is happening to TM

Callum, I wouldn't regard that facetious so much as simplistic. We have buyers not fronting up with payment for orders on our website too. When it happens there we just wait an appropriate period of time before cancelling the sale. No drama, no drawn out procedures with a third party, no commission to claw back, we just walk away. Allowing Trade Me to control what is a non-existent problem for us is unneeded and unwanted. We have such a small percentage (<5%) of our sales via Trade Me so walking away from listing here is an easy decision. We did the same for Ebay when they started demanding unrealistic T&Cs and have no qualms about doing the same here.

In the history of this particular forum, there have only been 7 threads with double digit replies. This is approaching triple figures and it is only 24 hours old. Hello, TradeMe? Are you there? 

I heartily agree with what Flossy said on her first post. 

I have been considering for some time developing my own web site and this

latest T/Me decision is convincing me that it would be the best thing to do.

Looking at the votes on the forums..TM official post about these new payment moves has -47 votes. Nothing even comes close to those numbers in the community. Surely, surely, surely TradeMe is starting to think about this. Almost 100 comments here as well. Big subject. Now I do understand that TM needs to make money to keep going. We all do. But if I made a decision that my buyers were clearly upset about and against, I would be looking in the mirror. Not too late to have a rethink here TM.

Robert, it sure isn't as cost-effective as it once was! Buyers are not finding the site as easy to navigate as it was before the so-called improvements. There are a number of bugs - including bidders being unable to bid (that's diabolical for an auction site!). The speed at which these problems are being solved is appallingly slow. And there still isn't a decent search engine. 

In-trade sellers are treated like the proverbial. Overseas sellers flood the site and are not subject to the same terms and conditions as we are. It's simply not a level playing field. This latest move by Trade Me adds insult to injury.

The way for TM to make more money is by increasing engagement, not by imposing fee increases and restricting options for those still loyal to the site. We all know numbers have dropped dramatically, and we know why. TM has lost the faith of many, this is not the way to bring them back.

Btw, Callum? TM is about relationships. About repeat business. I understand the temptation to set rules and stick to them, but the traders who are focused on their buyers satisfaction are the ones who will always succeed. TM needs to think about that too.

Wait for this - go to the home page and my main category, Pottery & Glass, isn't even on the list. Like WTF! 
They know about this, nod, and do nothing. So if you're just casually browsing, you won't even see the entire category.
Who does that? You have to go "into" the site in order to see there are more categories. No way to tell if that's cost sales or not but it hasn't helped. 

One of the things TM did years ago was say it is essential to keep shipping costs low, so they added success fees to shipping, and what happened, shipping fees went up (of course). Now its compulsary ping, more fees and so shipping will go up again to compensate for additional fees

One question - is the Ping payment automatic on purchase? What happens if the buyer needs to delay payment for a few days (subject to seller agreement)?

Can I just include a note under each auction stating ‘Sadly, Trade Me have removed the payment via bank transfer option for all in-trade sellers like us. However, we are still happy to accept direct bank transfers. If you wish to pay this way, please select ‘paymentby cash’ when you bid . We will e-mail bank details once the auction closes.’

Will this work?
Will this be a breach of TM’s rules?
I am very annoyed they have introduced this. Payment via bank transfer helps calculate correct shipping on multi purchases and also allows a freedom between buyer and seller for fair agreements to be reached over payment periods.
Surely I am free to transact my business how I choose, provided I adhere to the laws of the land.

I really don't think this came into TM's thinking. So many of my customers know they can bid or buy now, and pay me within a week or two. If my buyers can ONLY buy what they can pay for, right now using whatever available credit they have on their PING linked Credit Card, right there and then, sales may decline. The impulse to buy must now be tamped by their available credit in that minute. So, TradeMe, please consider this. Your success fees on these many purchases made for payment in a few days, or a week or two, will not be able to be completed if you impose this PING only payment. And please do not bring into this "Afterpay". The fees on that are ridiculously high for us sellers.It makes that option untenable most of the time when we work on razor thin margins as it is. So, TradeMe, please discuss this.

Hi Sharon. I've answered your question a few posts up. Have a read and let me know if you require further clarification. 

If it's a buynow, then basically no, you can't buy and delay payment. The payment via Ping has to be at the point of purchase or the sale doesn't proceed. It's like buying almost anything else online. You can't buy it and then pay later via some other method. 

Bidding is a different matter. 

I also don't know how TM are going to work around the "cash" loophole. 

Years ago a few of us were invited to an online meeting with TM managers. That's cool. We turned up online and got spoken at and then the meeting ended. Zero input. 

This scenario is ridiculous with shipping fees. 
If the buyer buys multiple items they often select shipping for each and TM expect me to email them begging for the success fee refund. 
But with combined shipping, sometimes you can combine item A with B but not A with C due to weight, fragility, size or shape. 
In my line, china and antiques, it is impossible to say I can definitely combine until I know what the items are. 
In short, if this site was set up better, this would be LESS of an inconvenience. But it's not, so it's a MASSIVE inconvenience. 

We are all wasting our time on here lettting TradeMe know we ain't happy ! It is bad enough as it is with their number of known glitches on their "new improved site" & they have done nothing to correct these in over a year ! They keep rewarding the overseas sellers & casual sellers (many should be in-trade).They get a automatic profit rise when the courier companies put up their prices with their unfair success fees put onto shipping.Worst if the buyer has a rural adress.Even more fees.Fees on ping & Afterpay.Reduced viewers because of the glitches & the cost of living crisis.As mentioned earlier we are wasting our time as it's all about making profit on this site.As mentioned by some why ain't casual sellers being forced to have "ping" only as well if it's a security issue !!!!!!!!

Thanks Callum. I will offer payment as described and see how things go. I have traded for years and built up a good customer base, so don’t want TM to interrupt that by removing the flexibility I currently offer.Thanks to all for their comments.

Flexibility is key here Sharon. I too have a wonderful system that has made TM thousands and thousands of dollars over the years. This new PING enforced system may heavily interrupt this. I offer PING and some pay using PINGF, all good. But..for the ones that utilise my extended payment terms..this will impact them. 

Like many of us long term traders, as you say we have repeat buyers, and they go through tm but always pay to the bank account as they dont like ping. Now as they will only have a ping option, and they have my email address, they will now just come direct to me. In that respect good for me as I dont pay fees on that trade, bad for TM as they lose all the fees they normally would have got for those trades which were paid by bank deposit

Trade Me have outdone themselves again. slowly shooting their own feet, one toe at a time.

1) User Interface changes to website that just look good and that's it no real benefit to their users.

2) ever increasing fees and money gouging!

3) practically no customer service or method to contact them

4) Changing payment methods

5) partnerships with courier services that are very low quality (Aramex)

Five more toes to go! Congratulations on driving all your In-Trade users away!

I think I am going to deactivate my Products so none load for the 3rd November. I am only a small fish. But if enough small fish join together..just saying. 

If I was a lawyer arguing ‘Does TM want in-trade sellers’ this would be my case:
1/ Ask in-trade sellers to identify themselves.
2/ Consider ways to disadvantage them.
3/ Put in-trade on their on their auctions
4/ Impose higher success fees than other sellers
5/ Impose success fees payable on their shipping
6/ Increase success fee maximum
7/ Impose even higher success fees
8/ Reconsider how successful these attempts have been
9/ Increase Ping fees
10/ make Ping mandatory whilst removing direct banking
11/ Imply in-trade sellers are responsible for scams by not extending mandatory Ping to casual sellers
12/ Send email notifying change without reply option
13/ Notify on Noticeboard with comments closed
14/ Watch thread grow with complaints and ignore
15/ Increase success fees again
16/ Increase Ping fees again
17/ Place arbitrary listing limit
18/ Ban in-trade sellers

Obviously some of this is tongue in cheek and speculation. But if one were to plan the removal of a group, it might be similar to this.

There were no In Trade sellers back in the days when T M was such a lively community, such an attractive on line entity that begged to be swallowed up by some investment shark. So maybe you are onto something... ;-)

Robert, You missed the bit where communications with buyers were moved in-house to prevent sellers from accessing buyers' email addresses to facilitate repeat sales from being done outside of Trade Me's commission structure. 

Tony, how early was that, pre-2002? I remember when you could put in a Wanted To Buy ad which also would've circumvented fees - makes sense they'd stop those though MP encourages it. I assume that'll go paid eventually. 

I was being flippant. Unaware of that actually happening in reality though I did see it happen/suggested somewhere. Etsy maybe? We're not there anymore either.