Scammed!

https://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/kitchen/small-appliances/food-processors/auction-4059075514.htm

I am livid. Trademe is STILL getting hacked and people are still listing fake items that don’t exist. There are at least 4 fake Thermomixes the hacker listed today. Trademe you need to do better!!! This is only Thermomixes, I wonder what else they are listing to rip people off!!!

Yes, Yes & Yes Robert, ambulance at bottom of hill doesn't sit back with it's hat off & just lets this happen to them...

That's exactly where I am at - We have asked the questions directly throughout and invited response - The silence speaks volumes here as the background buzzes with life!

- Cheers.

Kia ora everyone. We hate to see anyone having a bad experience on our site and are sorry to hear about this.

If you see anything suspicious on our site the fastest way to let our team know is via the Community Watch button at the bottom of every listing. We're constantly looking at what more we can do to protect our members and have a Trust & Safety team of 25 people who monitor the site seven days a week.

We strongly recommend buyers use Ping so they are covered by our Buyer Protection policy which means we can track the payment and refund you if the item(s) aren't as described or don't turn up at all. 

How about sending a bulk email to all of your customers warning them and telling them you have been hacked, educate everyone so the scammers aren’t making lots of money on your website and getting away with this. Tell all your customers (not us, the victims… who have lost money … too late to use Ping now!!!) because actually it won’t help people like me. You need to be upfront and honest, I’m not impressed, it’s just not good enough. You need to do a lot better to protect your customers. Are you doing this? What will you improve after this experience? What will you change? Are you going to warn people and educate your customers?

There were 4 more listings the scammer listed the other day on Thermomix alone, they are still getting away with it, so, so far, it’s still happening and people will still get hacked, scammed and ripped off, all money going overseas and lost.

All you are doing is fobbing this off onto the NZ police and blaming the victim and not taking full responsibility for being hacked.

Lucy (TM rep), I don’t think this is good enough and it doesn’t answer our questions.
We know scamming exists.
We know there are measures to prevent it.
We don’t know why those measures aren’t being taken.
We do know TM keeps this quiet and we do know it needs 25 people full time to manage the damage.
Can we have some answers please?
At present, this looks like TradeMe have decided to not implement measures and are not notifying customers because a/ they don’t want to spend the money, b/ they don’t want to knock buyers confidence, and sadly c/ they profit through it if it drives more people to Ping.
Please tell us this isn’t true and something more proactive is happening.

Lucy - Member Not Staff,

Good to see you reported that scammer with 4 further false listings - Well Done Keeping other Members Safe from falling into this trap Thank you - Much appreciated 😊👍

Other Victims: the NZ media is interested in picking up this newsworthy story and I’m sure it will be public knowledge in no time. Trademe just doesn’t want to accept full responsibility or look bad, but it is coming out. Shame on Trademe for not acting fast enough. I’m not paid by Trademe or work for Trademe yet I still managed to pick up 4 fake scamming items that got listed that were sitting there for some time. Why I am I faster at picking these things up than a paid employee? I suggest everyone else contact the NZ media and get this out now

I’ve been scammed once myself and I had a week where every item over $500 got purchased by a scammer.

I know the former as I lost almost a thousand bucks and I know the latter because TM told me. What did they all have in common? The purchases occurred or products were listed between 2am and 4am. They will know.

The best improvement they can make to enhance revenue is to make the safe. Everything else is secondary.

One only has to asks oneself, ‘why did I stopping using any website?’ There are two answers that come to mind:
1/ lack of confidence that I’m not being scammed and
2/ sick of the complexity.

At present, 1 is starting to become more prevalent and 2/ seems to be what TM are endeavouring to achieve (new site, new feedback, new shipping template, ADs everywhere)

Look at Stuff. They have now published an article shaming Trademe for not using enough measures to protect their customers and prevent scammers and hackers.

Lucy - (TM Staff), Thank you for jumping in with a Comment.

Pondering alt Solutions ...

The main percentage of reports in Hacking & Scamming we are seeing track back to the Australian ANZ Bank Account Numbers ... With Respect, I know this is Not every case.

I would like to suggest the Payment Bank Account Number in the Free text field is Developed into an Identifiable Scanned Payment Bank Account Number Input Box ...

How was Lucy's - (Member), Scammer able to change/list 4 further false listings? - Yes! I know the possibility of hacking 4 separate Further TM Members accts however...

1. Was it 4 Separate TM Members Accounts? Or was it the 1 TM Member's Account?
2. Did they use the 1 Bank Account number on All 4 New Listings?
3. Did they use the 1 same Bank Account number they used to scam Lucy - (Member)?
4. How many Bank Accounts is this 1 Scammer using?
5. Why has this/these Bank Account Numbers Not been Blocked from the TM Servers? - Yes! we know the Payable Bank Account is a Free text field however a Simple algorithm to scan the free text field works with Identifiable Bank Account Numbers Or Develop a scanned Payment Bank Account Input Box!
6. How has Lucy - (Member), been able to advise Us of 4 further false listings from the Same Scammer?
7. What is the Identifier that alerted Lucy - (Member)?
8. Why hasn't that Identifier been Blocked from the TM Servers?
9. How has the TM Trust & Safety Team of 25 Staff Missed this Happening?

Australian ANZ 04- Bank Accounts Are an Identifiable Range Separate from the NZ ANZ 04- Bank Account Range -

1. Again a simple Algorithm to scan the free text field for, Not only the Australian ANZ 04- Bank Accounts but inclusive of Adding All Known Bank Account Numbers Used by the Hackers/Scammers incase they Learn How to Hack these Blocked Bank Account numbers & proceed with Scam Or
2. Develop the Scanned Payment Bank Account Number Box in the Free text field to a Scanned Input box within the field...
3. Enabling the Australian ANZ 04- Bank Account Number Range to Halt All Transactions onsite while the Listing is investigated & Blocked/Passed as required.

Members Privacy is Not Breached when scanning & Releasing passed accounts - No info' is retained on the server Other Than the Fraudsters Bank Accounts.

OR ...

1. What, Who, When, Where & How is TM & The Trust & Safety Team Doing?
2. As Lucy - (Member) Has divulged - It's Not Catching These Hackers/Scammers from Instantly Repeating the Scam Multiple Times!
3. It's Not Working!.

Consideration & Response is as always Most Helpful - Cheers.

This is not a good look for TradeMe and the TM response, no offence Hannah, I thought was a bit disingenuous:

”Taking matters into your own hands can expose you to great risk by providing a dodgy member with your personal email address, we also cannot help protect other members if we don't know about it,” she said.

“We have close working relationships with the Police and Cert NZ, and work with them to hold people accountable on the rare occasion that a trade does go wrong.”

Members taking things into their own hands is what happens when TM sit idly by. And as for the threat of a dodgy member getting our email addresses, that's the least of our worries otherwise the entire site would be a threat to us given emails are exchanged after every completed auction. We - need - more - action. In this instance it's a new member who presumably was authenticated also as they have buy nows. What's up with that?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131657624/trade-me-scam-victim-gets-revenge-on-thermomix-fraudster

There are members now taking this into their own hands after repeatedly finding the scammer is able to still list fake items which is such a slap in the face and puts all Trademe buyers at risk. Trade me is not doing a good enough job to protect us, yes 100% sitting idly unless I see otherwise. I am now in contact with other victims of this scam after exposing Trademe on the Stuff article as being weak, easily hacked, uncaring and not safe to trade. It’s riddled with scammers now and they are not doing enough and have not done enough even after knowing about the issue for a long time! There is no honesty or transparency or accountability here. I 100% blame Trademe because they didn’t warn people, and had no safety measures in place. I will be taking further action collectively with the other victims to get reimbursed for their failure for not being secure enough. I will take all the action I can.

Cheers Robert, - Unfortunately it ain't so Rare in occurring either! 

As in my Comment above ...

1. How is this Scammer Able to List More Products?
2. How After Reporting This Scammer is this Member Able to Track More Fraudulent Listings to 'Buy Now' on from the Same Scammer - Yet TM & Trust & Safety Are Not??
3. The Scammer Already Has this Members Email Address - They Scammed Her First - Well Before these New Listings!
4. TM are Allowing the Scammer here by Non Prevention on/of an Already Known Fraudulent Thief!!
5. etc. etc. etc...

In regards to the excerpt -  “We have close working relationships with the Police and Cert NZ, and work with them to hold people accountable on the rare occasion that a trade does go wrong.” - 

I did mention in prior comments above...

1. ambulance at bottom of hill doesn't sit back with it's hat off & just lets this happen to them...
2. What Law is TM going down to Prosecute the Bank Account Holder = Hacker/Scammer???
3. I don't believe, given all the info', that there is Nothing being processed here!

So Where is the "accountable" Compensation to Members who Have Been Scammed - Ripped of their Hard earnt $ Money???

Why are the Police Not working with these Members to achieve Compensation???

NEWSFLASH:

Kia Ora All, - TM Have made a significant change! - We Are Now Sent an Email to Confirm A Change of Email Address...

Email:

- Cheers 😊

S, this is not new. It's always been like that. In addition to the email above, you should also receive an email like this one I received last year.

WoW! Cheers Gary - I did not know that I am just reading in these Posts & Comments Members are asking for this change of notification & questioning why TM haven't implemented this! Great to now learn it is an existing feature - Thank you.

I didn't receive the second Email as I cancelled the request change.

Thank you very much 😊

POLICE UPDATE:
The Police called the other day when I suggested their email saying they would not investigate wasn't in the public interest. 
I was told the "04" bank account numbers are not operated solely by ANZ.
An "04" bank account number can be operated by another entity and in my case was coming directly out of Australia.
The Police advice was to tell people not to pay into any 04 accounts if you were suspicious. 
Apparently there are a lot of scams on TradeMe being brought to their attention and a quick google will see that many are ending up in the media and there's probably many more we don't hear about. 
Incidentally, there are even more happening on Facebooks Marketplace. 

"Incidentally, there are even more happening on Facebooks Marketplace. " .. at least facebook don't charge for the illusion of safety tho.

Cheers for the update Robert,

Obviously the Police will be aware of the entity's the 04 accounts belong to which is a certain range, separate to NZ ANZ. 

I have heard FB's Marketplace is also targeted and not limited to there alone!

Scanning All - Pulling 04's & known used Bank accounts - Investigating Pre Releasing Or Blocking on server!

Lucy
We have been scammed identically to you. If you want to go to media we are with you. Graham and Helen

So I just found out scammers overseas are offering $$$$ to buy legitimate Trademe accounts…. Omg Trademe tell me exactly how you’re going to stop this? So far Trademe has been silent and have not done anything. Still, they refuse to warn all of their users! Shocking!!!!

Helen, I’m so sorry to hear this. I complained to the NZ Media and they published a story in Stuff. Perhaps this needs to go further and go on TV such as Fair Go? Any other ideas? How much did you loose? What happened? It’s such a horrible feeling and especially when you think TM is a safe place to buy and sell… you’re actually not protected at all and there’s 0 safety net when things go wrong, I had no idea. All those fees I paid them over 15 years + you would think they would help, or even admit their wrongdoing by even allowing scammers to use their website and take hard working kiwi’s money so easily… there’s not enough safety measures in place to protect us! I still feel so mad about it. It’s such a joke, I feel like Trademe is just taking advantage of us and allows all that scamming to go on without any repercussions, they don’t help us or even empathise. Happy to sit back and still take all that money that comes through though. 

Hi we got scammed out of $ 971 whilst trying to buy a thermomix. We used the buy now paying into a bank account. We have wanted a thermomix for a very long time. We have reported to the bank and police. The bank account looked like an ANZ account but when we rang ANZ they had no record of that account. Of course we have been told by TM that we should have used Ping. This begs the question why dont they make it compulsory to use Ping. This would deter scammers as well as protecting users. TM should be ashamed of their lack lustre security.

There's been a lot of scams happening and I do not for a minute think TradeMe are taking these seriously. 
Thermomix has been one item that a lot have been scammed by. 
As for those accounts, they do look like ANZ but are generally 04 accounts which can be created in Australia so the NZ Police do not pursue. 
I think making Ping compulsory could be an answer but of course it just benefits TradeMe and costs sellers extra. 
But there's many other ways to ensure scammers aren't successful including the need to confirm logins etc. 

That’s so sad. Yes for expensive items there should be only two options: cash and collect or Ping. It’s another Thermomix scam, I can’t believe that! Just goes to show that months and months later, TM is still allowing the scam to take place! Horrible :( yes I have learned never pay into an 04 account. Report to Police online so it’s logged, to your bank, to Trademe, everywhere you can, damn I hope these evil people are stopped. Obviously TM is still failing at their so called security measures.

Hi everyone. I've just added an official comment to this post - you can see it at the top under the opening comment, for ease of reference. 

but it's not "everything you can" is it Lucy? MFA would absolutely be something more that you "can" but do not (as yet ) offer.

2FA Anyone?

Upvotes on the Main Post count good people - Cheers.